The Odyssey
Thursday, February 2, 2012
Book XIV
After Odysseus arrives at the swineherd's, he is asked to tell his story about who he is and where he has come from. He doesn't tell the truth and tells lie after lie. Why do you think he does this? Why doesn't he trust the swineherd? It seems as if the swineherd looks up to Odysseus. Also, some parts of the his fake tale seem similar to his real journey. Name some examples.
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Odysseus does not want the swineherd to ruin his plan. It is not that he doesn't trust the swineherd, he can't trust anyone because if he told one person the story could spread and his plan would be ruined. The swineherd is also hopeless. If Odysseus told him the truth he would be in awe. Odysseus has been away for so long that the swineherd wouldn't believe the man standing in front of him no matter what he said or did.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus lied because he had to; and although he trusted the loyal swineherd, he could not tell him that he was the great Odysseus. First, the swineherd would not believe him. When the disguised Odysseus told him the prophecy of the king of Ithaca the swineherd said he did not believe him. He was also disguised as an old, unhealthy man, and no one would believe that Odysseus looked this way. If the swineherd did believe him, however, his plan would be ruined. The swineherd would tell others and the news would get around to the suitors, who would then either prepare for attack or run away.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Odysseus’s lies do compare with his real life adventures. When he talks about how the king of Thesprotia, Phidon, helped him, it is strangely similar to when King Alcinous helped him and sent him home. When he speaks of king Acastus, who stole his clothes and dressed him in rags, it is actually the story of how Athena disguised him. Thus, Odysseus, the man of twists and turns, has spun up an excellent tale.
Odysseus had to lie in order to continue with his plan. He probably did not care that the swineherd didn't trust or believe him, all he needed was to learn about the state of his family and Ithaca. Also, if Odysseus had told the swineherd the truth, he probably would not have treated Odysseus as a normal person, but instead as the admirable king he envisions Odysseus to be. Odysseus was also still disguised, so if he told the swineherd that he, in fact, was Odysseus, there is no way the swineherd would have believed him. He knew that it would have given him false hope or he would have told the people at the palace to kill him because he was trying to pretend to be Odysseus. It was all part of Athena's plan that she would reveal him when the time was right. Also, some of the stories he told involved the gods Athena and Zeus who had both played major roles on his journey back to Ithaca. The gods interfered in his life so many times, whether it was for better or worse, and he touched on that vaguely in his stories.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Charlotte that in order to proceed in his plan, lying was a solution. Odysseus knows that Athena is a very powerful goddess who is full of wisdom. Although Odysseus seems very independent throughout these books, he must rely on Athena now. He has to trust her because she has had more experience than Odysseus. I think that Eumeaus looks up to Odysseus because he is being told a very interesting story about Odysseus' "life." I also think that hospitality plays an important role as well. Eumaeus was definitely trying to be polite by seeming intrigued by Odysseus' story. I think that the reason Odysseus is starting to link some of his past with the stories he is telling the swinherd because he is slowly beginning to reveal himself. I think that Odysseus has a plan of his own, and this tying in stories of his past is a part of it.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in the book, Odysseus knows that Athena is helping him. As much as he might have wanted to reveal himself to Eumaeus, he didn't because thats not part of Athena's plan. Athena wants for him to reveal himself at the right time. Also, Odysseus does not want the word to be passed that the king is back, he needs the element of surprise in order to kill the suitors. Also, the swine heard might not have believed Odysseus, because he was hopeless and convinced that Odysseus is dead. If he thought that Odysseus was an impostor, he might have told others about him.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus is telling lies because he does not want to give away who he is and what his story is. If people found out who he is right now then his whole plan would be ruined. Odysseus must do this to keep his plan working, and he is also doing it because he is beleiving in Athena that this is the right hting to do. Odysseus is making sure he does not give away who he is because everything Athena told him to do would be ruined, and bad things might end up occuring. He does not trust the swineherd because he does not know if he would end up telling people or even if he would belive who he really was and his story. For now he just needs to make sure nothing goes wrong and try to execute his plan.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Charlotte and Olivia. Lying in fact, did play a key role in this book. Odysseus, in order for him to stay safe, had to lie to Eumaeus throughout his story. If Odysseus had revealed himself, Eumaeus would most likely not believe him. Odysseus was admired by everyone in Ithaca, and for him to return with such short notice and especially disguised as a different man, no one would truly believe that it was him. As the Odyssey has gone on, Odysseus has been getting more and more help from Athena. She has been there through everything to help him out, and clearly from her wise personality she always know what is right. This means that she has a plan for when Odysseus will reveal his true identity.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus was forced to lie to Eumaeus because he must remain hidden and disguised. If Odysseus tells the swineherd his story before Athena comes back from Sparta, his plan to overthrow the suitors that plague his wife will never work. On another point, I disagree with you, Mackenzie, as I do not feel like the swineherd looks up to Odysseus at all. He keeps sighting the fact that Odysseus is a beggar and without clothes. The only reason Odysseus is taken in by the swineherd is because the swineherd does not want to be punished by Zeus. The swineherd does not believe Odysseus' story, even after Odysseus swears an oath. One major example of his fake tale seeming close to his real journey is when Odysseus tells about Phidon, the king of Thesprotia, taking him in. He tells about the king's son, who is really Nausicaa, finding him nearly dead. He also tells about the generosity of Phidon, who is Alcinous in real life. He says that Phidon (Alcinous) takes him in, treats him well, and even sends him off with treasures. The way that Homer wrote Odysseus' lies is very interesting, as they are factually incorrect, but the lies each represent the main story of Odysseus' journey.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus is trying to be covert, and a part of being covert is not telling your life story to a guy who might go into town and start screaming that Odysseus is back. He just has to lie to keep himself alive and he must refrain from doing anything dangerous. Although he does tell variations of his life story (Phidon is Alcinous etc.) He seems to stick on the fact that he must keep himself from doing anything that would cause the swine-hearder to be suspicious of him. Also, I think, as we reflect more on the book we are beginning to see actually how much Odysseus is thankful to Athena for saving his life, although i think he is upset he wasn't able to take on all his challenges and obstacles on his own.
ReplyDeleteEven though Odysseus probably wanted to reveal his identity to Eumaeus, he knew very well that it wouldn't be kept secret. Especially since Eumaeus had a lot of respect and admiration for him. He lies by telling these stories that are variations of what he actually went through. On page 311, he mentions being washed up on the shore of Thesprotia (Phaeacia), and the king welcoming him and treating him with hospitality. In order to prevent Eumaeus from being suspicious, he cleverly says when in Thresprotia, the king Phidon (Alcinous)told him of Odysseus being in Thresprotia while trying to make it home and all the gifts he received while there. When Odysseus says this, not only does he escape suspicion from Eumaeus, but he promises Eumaeus that Odysseus is trying to get back home.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason for Odysseus lying was because he had to carry on with his plan. Although he trusts the swineherd and knows how loyal he is, yet because Athena said he had to stay disguised, and he knew it was the right thing to do, he refrained from telling the truth. I believe that this took a great amount of strength for Odysseus not only to stay in character, but hold back from telling his good friend the swine herder who has missed him so much who it really is.
ReplyDeleteWhile Odysseus is telling his story, he lies multiple times about a story, but his story involves some events that were similar to what actually happened. For instance , he talks about how a king helped him after pleading, the same way he did with Alcinous. Also, his men killed the villagers by going crazy the same way they did with the sun gods cattle.
I don't think it is necessarily a matter of trusting the swine herder but more of a security to make sure that nobody finds out he is back and keeps his plan of the killing the suitors from taking place. I think it was very hard for Odysseus not to reveal himself, especially because Eumaeus was so loyal to him and so sad that he thought he would never see him again. I also think that Eumaeus might not believe him if he told him that he was Odysseus. He may go around telling everyone that someone was claiming to be the great Odysseus. His story about Phidon is an example where he is basing his false story off of true events. Phidon would represent Alcionous.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus must still remain covert and in hiding until his plan of killing the suitors is accomplished.