The Odyssey
Wednesday, February 8, 2012
Book XVIII
Throughout book eighteen there were relatively common themes that reoccured again from past books. Intervention has been one of the most reoccurring, yet very important themes in the Odyssey. Why do you think Athena still felt the need to intervene in Penelope's life, after Penelope clearly stated that she didn't need help getting ready and that her "glow" had died away when Odysseus had left? Penelope was reminiscing upon what her husband had told her right before he left for Troy several years ago, and what she should do when it comes time to remarry if he doesn't return. It's seems to me that even though what Odysseus had told her at the time has finally come true, Penelope will never be ready to remarry. Do you think she will ever change her mind and realize that marriage is the best thing for her to cope about her long lost husband? How would you feel if you were stuck in that kind of situation?
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I think Athena continues to intervene in Odysseus'/Telemachus'/Penelope's life because, unlike they, she knows what is best for them. No matter what they think is the right decision, Athena is an immortal and is the only that is able to decide their fate. Penelope will never be ready to remarry, partially because Odysseus will always be her only love, as well as the fact that I think she will always have hope of him returning. Although many people on Ithaca seem to think Odysseus will never return, it has never been verified that he is actually dead, and as long as there is no proof of his death, Penelope will always maintain a little hope inside of her that he is coming home. If I were stuck in the same situation, I think there is no other way to cope with it except with grievance. Maybe if I knew indefinitely that Odysseus was not coming home, I would try to remarry to get over him. I think in this situation, being ignorant as to what is happening to Odysseus is the worst feeling, and if she remarried with the thought of Odysseus maybe someday coming home, she would feel as if she was betraying him.
ReplyDeleteI think that Athena is still interfering within Odysseus and Penelope's life because she sees good things in Odysseus. Throughout the books, it is said that he is very "god-like" so I think she knows Odysseus needs Penelope to have something to live for. Odysseus loves Penelope, and he needs her to be here for him. Athena knows that Penelope has been very upset these past 20 years, so the virtuous thing to do would be to help her. I do think that Penelope marrying another man would help her cope with the absence of Odysseus. I understand that her love for Odysseus is extremely strong, but I do not think it is worth it for her to wait all this time and feel no passion for anyone else. I agree with Amy that a consequence of remarrying would cause Penelope to feel like she was betraying Odysseus. I think that this grave decision depends on the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteEverything has been flowing perfectly to Athena's plan. She has always been there for Odysseus, Telemachus, and Penelope. Now, Odysseus is home and everything is just about perfect. If Athena leaves who knows what could happen. Athena knows what is best for Odysseus, Telemachus, and Penelope and there is no need to change the fact that she is there, by their side. Penelope has now almost given up on Odysseus' return, but Athena is not going to let that happen. She is there to jump on things that are getting in the way of her plan. It seems as if she is treating the family as if they are puppets, making decisions for them, not letting them make their own. If I were Penelope I wouldn't have a clue what to do. If she remarries, Odysseus could return. But, in her mind it seems as if Odysseus will never return since she has been mourning over him the last twenty years. I think that Athena is meant to be with Odysseus and should not remarry no matter what is going through her mind. I think that if she wed a suitor her life wouldn't be any happier.
ReplyDeleteAthena is intervening with Odysseus' family because she wants to help Odysseus and Telemachus kill the suitors. She wants to make Penelope look beautiful to cause to love her more and catch them off guard to help Odysseus and Telemachus' plan. She wants Odysseus to be angry at the suitors so she make the suitors insult him. Everything that the suitors are doing is making Telemachus angry and Athena is making the suitors act more barbaric. Athena is also intervening for entertainment. The gods have a good sense of humor and Athena likes intervening with mortals.
ReplyDeleteAthena feels the need to intervene into the life of Penelope because Penelope is falling apart. She cannot stand being without Odysseus and sees no point to living without love or happiness. Penelope states "Now if only blessed Artemis sent me a death as gentle, now, this instant-no more wasting away my life, my heart broken in longing for my husband." (Lines 230-232) Penelope will never change her mind and remarry. Odysseus has meant so much to her over the years. He is possibly the greatest human to ever live, so she would never give up the chance of getting back together with a man of that level of power. Also, If she was going to remarry, why would she have not done it within the last 20 years? She has wasted her life, so she does not intend to remarry and give up all the hope she has had since Odysseus left for Troy. In this kind of a situation, I would feel absolutely terrible and I would also definitely remarry. Odysseus is a great man, but it is not worth it to waste your life waiting for something that may never come. Remarrying is the only way to get on with life when there is such a little chance that the one you love is coming home.
ReplyDeleteAthena intervenes in Odysseus', Penelope's and Telemachus' lives and manipulates their circumstances not just because she has pity for them, but because she sees that they are mortals with high values. I think she views them as good people that have had bad things happen to them. Even though the idea of remarrying might seem like a good option for Penelope, because it might take away the grief so she could get on with life, it really isn't. A large percentage of these suitors are cruel, lazy, and deceitful men- the opposite of Odysseus. Personally, I don't feel that any of these suitors, especially Antinous, are noble enough to marry Penelope. Also, Odysseus has been going through so much in order to get back home to Ithaca and to his wife and son. It would be a shame for him to come to a home with his son gone, his wife remarried, and his house in shambles. Athena is intervening in Penelope's life to help Penelope stay strong and wait for Odysseus to come and solve the problem with the suitors.
ReplyDeleteAthena intervenes because she is a god and gods know what is right for all the mortals. She helps them because she feels that only she knows what is good for them. Without Athena’s help Odysseus would be back on Calypso’s island and Telemachus would be nowhere in life and the suitors would still be taking over the palace. I think that Penelope will never marry because she still loves Odysseus. Also, she hates the suitors and would never marry any of them. If I were in her situation I wouldn't marry any of the suitors. Penelope isn't the kind of person that would marry someone to cope with sadness, she would marry them because she loves them. She will never marry anyone until she hears for sure that Odysseus is dead, and that hasn't happened yet. I think that she is the kind of person who will stick by her husband until he comes home.
ReplyDeleteAthena feels that it is necessesary to continue to intervene because she has been helping Odysseus for his entire journey. I do not think that it was necessesary for her to interfere, bucause Odysseus' plan was going well. In my opinion, Athena continues to intervene bacause she is entertained by it. She has been following Odysseus' family and helping them for years and even though they do not need help at this point, she continues to intervene.
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ReplyDeleteAthena is irresponsible because she does not need to intervene in this book. She did not need to intervene here because Odysseus is ready to defeat the suitors; he is in disguise; he has weapons; he is ready to attack. The only reason that Athena interferes here is for her own enjoyment. This shows that Athena is not the most mature person. If I were Penelope, I also would not marry any of the suitors, because my husband is coming home, and she would not really love any of the suitors like she loves Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, Athena's intervention is both necessary in some places, and unnecessary in others. For the plot line to work out the way it does, It was vital for athena to change odysseus into a beggar. on the other hand, after stoping him from going right up to the palace and to the swineherds first, she could have let him simply kill them all without certain unneeded actions. i believe that Penelope will never remarry, but if by some chance she does, it will be a bad marriage. she will not remarry for many more years and in that time period, suitors will lessen and lessen, until it it too late. i feel as if i were in her situation, i would wait a while longer while searching for news, and then remarry.
ReplyDeleteAthena still feels the need to intervene in Penelope's life because she wants to finish what she started. In order for both Penelope's and Odysseus' plans to work, Athena needs to help them and inspire them to take action. She needed to fix Penelope's looks because she knew that the suitors would have to be in a trance when they looked at her so that she could carry out her plan and trick them into giving her gifts. I think that it has taken her a long time to get over Odysseus because she has the false hope that she will come back and everything will be the same again. When people come and tell her things like "Odysseus is back on the island" or "Odysseus will return soon" she says she does not believe them, but they probably give her this false hope anyways. It would only take her until the people in the palace and kingdom forget about him and Telemachus is on the throne and the suitors leave her alone for her to move on, but all these distractions are in her way.
ReplyDeleteAthena isn't intervening in Penelope's life, she's intervening with Odysseus' life so he can return to his life in his kingdom. Athena just pushes others along to benefit Odysseus. she selflessly being selfish by benefiting Odysseus. But guys, lets be honest, if it wasn't for Athena Odysseus would be dead a long time ago. Penelope has been leading the suitors on for 20 years, why are they still attracted to her? Also, all of the suitors are stronger than Penelope so why don't they just take Ithaca, kill her and rule as sole leaders? I also find it entertaining that Odysseus is watching the suitors advance on Penelope. Athena is making Odysseus angry, and i can't wait for the final showdown
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