The Odyssey
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
XVII
In this book Odysseus, disguised as a begger, goes and mingles with the suitors, and gets to know some of them. This is all a part of Odysseus's plan to get rid of the suitors. Athena on page 366 says "Go now, gather crusts from all the suitors, test them, so we can tell the innocent from the guilty." What is she saying here and why? Who is the worst suitor out of all of them, and how do you know he is the worst suitor? Why does Homer create good suitors and bad suitors?
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Athena says "Go now, gather crusts from all the suitors, test them, so we can tell the innocent from the guilty," to Odysseus because she needs him to find out whether the suitors are truly rude and cruel, or just acting like it. She tells him to go around the room as a beggar and ask each suitor for some bread. If they give him bread, then they might be able to be convinced to leave Ithaca. If they do not give the beggar (Odysseus) bread, then they are truly bad people that must be killed. Antinous is by far the worst suitor. He is arrogant, rude, and cruel. When a beggar approaches him while he is feasting on food that is paid for by another man, he refuses to give the beggar (Odysseus) anything. This shows how Antinous has no heart. He does not only refuse to give Odysseus food, he starts to argue with him. Homer creates good and bad suitors to show how some men are in Ithaca to marry Penelope and get free food, shelter, and clothes. The nicer suitors, though, are just in Ithaca to marry Penelope, a great woman. Having nicer and meaner suitors in the Odyssey also amplifies the rudeness of some suitors. While many of them are nice, some are awful, such as Antinous. He plagues the title "suitor," and makes it so that all suitors are thought to be bad people, while many of them are truly not.
ReplyDeleteAthena says this quote, "Go now, gather crusts from all the suitors, test them, so we can tell the innocent from the guilty," because she is trying to tell Odysseus that he needs to find out who the suitors are before he battles them. He needs to figure out which are the stronger ones and how difficult the battle between Telemachus and Odysseus versus the suitors is actually going to be. He also needs to figure out the suitors' personalities, and if they are really so cruel, or if it is just a stereotype. I think when Athena tells Odysseus to gather crust from all the suitors it is a trick to see how welcoming the suitors really are. He needs to know if all the suitors are actually cruel or if it is just some of them. I think that the cruelest suitor is Antinous, because he is so unwelcoming to Odysseus and treats him like he is nothing. Some of the other suitors treat the beggar with some respect, because they feel poorly for the beggar's lifestyle. Because Antinous is the cruelest suitor, it shows that he must be killed. He is causing all of the chaos and making all the suitors plot against Odysseus and Telemachus so he can have be royalty in Ithaca.
ReplyDeleteAntinous is definitely the worst suitor. Throughout the end of the book he expresses a rude, cruel and very conceited character. Antinous is very different from a lot of the suitors. He refused to give the beggar (Odysseus) any food when clearly he had an abundant amount of which he didn't even pay for him self, yet because he was so selfish and mean he didn't give the beggar any. It is obvious from not only this action, but from the fact that he has the guts to fight and start an uproar against the beggar, who like one of the other suitors had stated could have been a god in disguise, shows that he doesn't have a heart and doesn't care about other people. Also I think Antinous refused to give some of his food to the beggar because Antinous feels superior and maybe this is the first time he has felt superior towards someone since he is a suitor and works in a house for figures with higher power so since this was the first time he felt important maybe he thought it wasn't needed for him to help out the beggar. The quote "Go now, gather crusts from all the suitors, test them, so we can tell the innocent from the guilty," is important because Athena is trying to explain to Odysseus how crucial it is for him to see what each suitor is like, and if they actually deserve to be killed. Having Odysseus go and ask the suitors for bread, is an intelligent strategy for him to find out the true personalities of each individual. Homer depicts both good and bad suitors to show the differences between the suitors living at the palace. Not everyone is the same, yet because some have a bad reputation the rest are generally known as being bad as well whereas that is not actually the case.
ReplyDeleteI think Athena is telling him that while the suitors are all bad for staying in his house, there are some that don't deserve to be killed and aren't incredibly mean. Antinous is clearly the leader and is the most manipulative and evil. I found it very interesting that Odysseus was able to bite his tongue when Antinous was insulting him and hit him with the stool. Coming to the palace as a beggar is clearly a way for Odysseus to see who among the suitors is truly evil and who is not. Good suitors and bad suitors are in the book to show that while it may seem like it is pure evil invading the palace, there is still some light in the dark. Odysseus is doing a very good job of keeping his cool when dealing with the suitors and by doing this he is insuring his plan will go smoothly.
ReplyDeleteAthena says this because she wants odysseus to see how bad the suitors are, and if he thinks they deserve a second chance. They clearly dont.
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious after reading this book that Antinous is the worst of the suitors. He is mean, and inconsiderate. He takes and takes from Telemachus, never leaves when asks, and is rude to everyone working there, yet he is unwilling to show any kindness to the beggar/Odysseus. You can tell that Homer is really building up to the battle. He is making the reader more and more mad at the suitors, which will only make the ending better. I really enjoyed this book and I am very excited to see the reaction from the suitors when Odysseus reveals himself. I think that will be really entertaining.
In that quote, Athena is telling Odysseus to test which suitors are good-hearted and which are evil by seeing who would take pity on a beggar. This will help so he will know which men he should kill first and are the most dangerous to the palace and his wife and son. Antinuous is clearly the worst suitor because he refused to take pity on the beggar, even after he was so nice to Antinuous, and he also threw objects at the beggar. Someone who throws a stool at a beggar who is starving has no heart. Even though all the suitors have the wrong intention of trying to convince Penelope to marry them even though she is still grieving, none of them have such a mean soul as to try and further cripple a hungry beggar. If all the suitors were this bad, then no one would stand out and make the story more interesting, which is why Homer had to have good and bad ones. It is also unrealistic that all the 118 suitors would be bad and mean.
ReplyDeleteIn the quote, Athena is trying to save good men from being confused and killed over some rotten apples per say. I also think Athena is trying to save blood for the sake of Odysseus. If you think about it, all of his true friends died either in Troy or on the way home from Troy, all violently to say the least. And to make Odysseus kill more than necessary is sort of a pity statement from Athena. To say the least, the suitors are pretty cruel to beggar Odysseus, Being cruel to him, throwing things at him etc. Overall Antinous is the worst of the suitors and berates and refuses to have anything to do with Odysseus. I believe a man is not judged by his colleagues and peers, but how he is treated to people below him. In that regard, Antinous is on the last wrung of that ladder. Homer seems to be building up the tension that Odysseus feels for them. Although there were some good suitors, any man that won't stand up to one person doing injustice deserves to die in my book.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus needs to test the suitors because Athena wants to know which suitors are bad and good. Even though all of the suitors are going to be killed no matter what they do, Athena wants to see which ones were nice and which ones were cruel so she can help them have a better life in the underworld. Antinous is an evil suitor. He only cares about himself. After he hits Odysseus every suitor is shocked. They are also afraid that the gods are going to punish him for his actions. Home creates bad suitors to create a better story, but the good suitors to stand up to the bad suitors.
ReplyDeleteThe main reason for Odysseus testing to suitors is to prove to himself and Athena which ones are truly guilty and should be killed to the ones that are innocent. although the living suitors are all going to die, the benefit of this was to see who would be helped in the afterlife. out of all the suitors, Antinous is by far the worst, being extremely self-centered and cruel to Odysseus, who at first was kind. the main reason for Homer to distinguish different groups of suitors to show that the gods do pity the ones who were there for just reasons and then the ones that deserved to die.
ReplyDeleteI think it is very noble that Odysseus and Athena are not planning to just kill every suitor. By testing them they are able to find out which ones are at fault and deserve to be punished. In the last book, book 16, When Odysseus was testing the suitors and Antinous lashed out, a lot of the suitors felt that Antinous' behavior was uncalled for and wrong. Odysseus is keeping a mental note of who has pity for him (when he is in beggar form) and who is being cruel and conspiring to kill him and Telemachus. Antinous is definitely going to receive the worst form of punishment out of all the suitors, for he has been the most deceitful, cruel, disrespectful, and lazy. I applaud Odysseus for not just killing every suitor on Ithaca when he got home, and listening to Athena's plans and advice. These suitors have agitated him so much, and he is still keeping his composure.
ReplyDeleteAthena tells Odysseus to go collect the crusts form them because she wants to see who will give the unwanted food to Odysseus (the beggar). Whoever gives Odysseus the bread will be kind and have pity for him, they will be the good suitors and they will be saved. By separating the good suitors from the bad before the battle, they will know whom not to kill during the battle. Homer creates good and bad suitors because he wants you to have mixed feelings for them as a whole. If you hate all the suitors, then you will have no pity for them when they are being killed. By making the reader like some of the suitors, Homer makes the situation a bit more sad and hard to read. Also, there are nice people in the world and of course some of the suitors will be good men. All of them want to marry Penelope, but not all of them are evil. Also, Homer wants the reader to take a side, all of the suitors are taking over the palace, eating all their food and wrecking the place, but some of the suitors aren’t evil. He wants you to decide what you think about the suitors.
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